Speeding Question

[steve]

Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
private streets of a HOA governed community in California?

Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.

Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
seriously reckless behavior or injury.

Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.

I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
better.)

I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
speeding drivers.

(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the case.)

The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.

Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
they left the residential areas....

Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?

I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
speeding.

I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
installation of bumps.

One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.

How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
property?

Regards,

Steve

[steve]

Hey Sub,

If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?

How about ***plonk***?

steve


Subcomandante wrote:
> The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding is
> unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
> -Sub
>
>
> "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
>
>>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
>>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
>>
>>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
>>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
>>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
>>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
>>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
>>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.
>>
>>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
>>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
>>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
>>
>>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
>>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
>>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
>>
>>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
>>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
>>better.)
>>
>>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
>>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
>>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
>>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
>>speeding drivers.
>>
>>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
>>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
>>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
>>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the case.)
>>
>>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
>>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
>>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
>>
>>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
>>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
>>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
>>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
>>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
>>they left the residential areas....
>>
>>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
>>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
>>
>>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
>>speeding.
>>
>>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
>>installation of bumps.
>>
>>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
>>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
>>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
>>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
>>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
>>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
>>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
>>
>>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
>>property?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>
>

[Subcomandante]

"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3F569C73.1010604@adelphia.net...
> Hey Sub,
>
> If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
> residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?
>
> How about ***plonk***?
>
> steve
>
>
What is reasonable?
I take my daughter true these so called residential areas to school every day.
The 40 is normal speed from the drivers point of view. To you 15 is speeding so
plonk or not plonk you never win.
-Sub





> Subcomandante wrote:
> > The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding is
> > unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
> > -Sub
> >
> >
> > "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
> >
> >>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
> >>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
> >>
> >>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
> >>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
> >>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
> >>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
> >>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
> >>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.
> >>
> >>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
> >>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
> >>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
> >>
> >>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
> >>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
> >>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
> >>
> >>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
> >>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
> >>better.)
> >>
> >>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
> >>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
> >>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
> >>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
> >>speeding drivers.
> >>
> >>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
> >>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
> >>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
> >>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the case.)
> >>
> >>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
> >>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
> >>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
> >>
> >>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
> >>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
> >>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
> >>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
> >>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
> >>they left the residential areas....
> >>
> >>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
> >>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
> >>
> >>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
> >>speeding.
> >>
> >>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
> >>installation of bumps.
> >>
> >>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
> >>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
> >>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
> >>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
> >>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
> >>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
> >>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
> >>
> >>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
> >>property?
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

[steve]

I clearly stated that 25 is the speed limit in a residential area, and I
was primarily concerned with a few folks exceeding this by 20-30 mph.

This seems a reasonable concern to me.

steve



Subcomandante wrote:
> "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3F569C73.1010604@adelphia.net...
>
>>Hey Sub,
>>
>>If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
>>residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?
>>
>>How about ***plonk***?
>>
>>steve
>>
>>
>
> What is reasonable?
> I take my daughter true these so called residential areas to school every day.
> The 40 is normal speed from the drivers point of view. To you 15 is speeding so
> plonk or not plonk you never win.
> -Sub
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Subcomandante wrote:
>>
>>>The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding is
>>>unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
>>>-Sub
>>>
>>>
>>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
>>>>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
>>>>
>>>>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
>>>>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
>>>>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
>>>>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
>>>>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
>>>>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.
>>>>
>>>>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
>>>>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
>>>>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
>>>>
>>>>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
>>>>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
>>>>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
>>>>
>>>>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
>>>>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
>>>>better.)
>>>>
>>>>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
>>>>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
>>>>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
>>>>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
>>>>speeding drivers.
>>>>
>>>>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
>>>>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
>>>>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
>>>>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the case.)
>>>>
>>>>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
>>>>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
>>>>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
>>>>
>>>>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
>>>>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
>>>>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
>>>>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
>>>>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
>>>>they left the residential areas....
>>>>
>>>>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
>>>>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
>>>>
>>>>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
>>>>speeding.
>>>>
>>>>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
>>>>installation of bumps.
>>>>
>>>>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
>>>>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
>>>>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
>>>>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
>>>>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
>>>>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
>>>>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
>>>>
>>>>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
>>>>property?
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Subcomandante]

"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3F56D786.5060109@adelphia.net...
> I clearly stated that 25 is the speed limit in a residential area, and I
> was primarily concerned with a few folks exceeding this by 20-30 mph.
>
> This seems a reasonable concern to me.
>
> steve
>
>
So what is your concern?
a) noise
b) safety
c) or the fact that they ignore the sign (your ego).

Well, the most effective concept these days is the photo enforcement.
Having said that, the cost may be prohibitive.
I have noticed in Santa Ana that the City is erecting photo enforcement signs
even though there are no camera installed.
Next psychologically effective device is portable radar which is connected to
large display so as you are passing by it displays your speed.
Ask your City if they would install one on the temporary bases on your street.

-Sub




>
> Subcomandante wrote:
> > "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > news:3F569C73.1010604@adelphia.net...
> >
> >>Hey Sub,
> >>
> >>If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
> >>residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?
> >>
> >>How about ***plonk***?
> >>
> >>steve
> >>
> >>
> >
> > What is reasonable?
> > I take my daughter true these so called residential areas to school every
day.
> > The 40 is normal speed from the drivers point of view. To you 15 is speeding
so
> > plonk or not plonk you never win.
> > -Sub
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Subcomandante wrote:
> >>
> >>>The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding is
> >>>unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
> >>>-Sub
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
> >>>>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
> >>>>
> >>>>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
> >>>>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
> >>>>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
> >>>>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
> >>>>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
> >>>>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.
> >>>>
> >>>>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
> >>>>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
> >>>>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
> >>>>
> >>>>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
> >>>>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
> >>>>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
> >>>>
> >>>>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
> >>>>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
> >>>>better.)
> >>>>
> >>>>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
> >>>>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
> >>>>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
> >>>>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
> >>>>speeding drivers.
> >>>>
> >>>>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
> >>>>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
> >>>>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
> >>>>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the
case.)
> >>>>
> >>>>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
> >>>>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
> >>>>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
> >>>>
> >>>>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
> >>>>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
> >>>>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
> >>>>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
> >>>>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
> >>>>they left the residential areas....
> >>>>
> >>>>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
> >>>>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
> >>>>
> >>>>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
> >>>>speeding.
> >>>>
> >>>>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
> >>>>installation of bumps.
> >>>>
> >>>>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
> >>>>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
> >>>>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
> >>>>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
> >>>>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
> >>>>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
> >>>>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
> >>>>
> >>>>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
> >>>>property?
> >>>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>

[steve]

The primary concern is avoiding loss of life and / or property damage
Sub, as well as avoiding installing 'speed bumps' to do it.

I am not in favor of bumps, and hope that friendly discussions with a
few folks who seem to be the most serious speeders might lead to them
toning it down a little.

It would be a real shame if all the residents had to deal with speed
bumps because of the actions of a few who like to race through the
neighborhood.

One of the Board members has had a very difficult time getting the
desired results when asking folks to slow it down -- but he may have
been a 'tad bit' confrontational when approaching the individuals.
(Perhaps an under-statement, but I wasn't there to see how he handled it
-- never the less I have my concerns)

This board member now desires to get speed bumps installed, and there
appear to be some other residents who agree with him.

I am hopeful that the problem can be mostly solved with just nicely
talking to a few 'speeders' over time in a non confrontational and
neighborly way just like I would hope someone would come to me if I were
the guy getting his neighbors upset. Now if the reason they were upset
was that my petunias were 'too bright' it would be a different matter!

It is possible however that this may be ineffective, and so I began the
thread to see if anyone else had been successful getting speeders to
slow it down a little without resorting to forceful measures like bumps,
cameras, machine gun nests and mine fields ;)

Please Sub, don't get me wrong. I am the last guy who wants to go
charging into telling others how to live or act -- Well, unless your
petunias are too bright!

steve





Subcomandante wrote:
> "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3F56D786.5060109@adelphia.net...
>
>>I clearly stated that 25 is the speed limit in a residential area, and I
>>was primarily concerned with a few folks exceeding this by 20-30 mph.
>>
>>This seems a reasonable concern to me.
>>
>>steve
>>
>>
>
> So what is your concern?
> a) noise
> b) safety
> c) or the fact that they ignore the sign (your ego).
>
> Well, the most effective concept these days is the photo enforcement.
> Having said that, the cost may be prohibitive.
> I have noticed in Santa Ana that the City is erecting photo enforcement signs
> even though there are no camera installed.
> Next psychologically effective device is portable radar which is connected to
> large display so as you are passing by it displays your speed.
> Ask your City if they would install one on the temporary bases on your street.
>
> -Sub
>
>
>
>
>
>>Subcomandante wrote:
>>
>>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3F569C73.1010604@adelphia.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hey Sub,
>>>>
>>>>If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
>>>>residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?
>>>>
>>>>How about ***plonk***?
>>>>
>>>>steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>What is reasonable?
>>>I take my daughter true these so called residential areas to school every
>>
> day.
>
>>>The 40 is normal speed from the drivers point of view. To you 15 is speeding
>>
> so
>
>>>plonk or not plonk you never win.
>>>-Sub
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Subcomandante wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding is
>>>>>unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
>>>>>-Sub
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
>>>>>>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
>>>>>>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
>>>>>>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
>>>>>>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
>>>>>>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
>>>>>>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential zone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
>>>>>>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
>>>>>>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
>>>>>>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
>>>>>>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
>>>>>>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
>>>>>>better.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
>>>>>>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
>>>>>>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
>>>>>>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
>>>>>>speeding drivers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
>>>>>>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
>>>>>>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
>>>>>>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the
>>>>>
> case.)
>
>>>>>>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
>>>>>>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
>>>>>>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
>>>>>>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
>>>>>>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
>>>>>>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
>>>>>>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
>>>>>>they left the residential areas....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
>>>>>>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
>>>>>>speeding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
>>>>>>installation of bumps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
>>>>>>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
>>>>>>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
>>>>>>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
>>>>>>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
>>>>>>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
>>>>>>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
>>>>>>property?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>

[Subcomandante]

"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3F56E52E.6070208@adelphia.net...
> The primary concern is avoiding loss of life and / or property damage
> Sub, as well as avoiding installing 'speed bumps' to do it.
>
> I am not in favor of bumps, and hope that friendly discussions with a
> few folks who seem to be the most serious speeders might lead to them
> toning it down a little.
>
> It would be a real shame if all the residents had to deal with speed
> bumps because of the actions of a few who like to race through the
> neighborhood.
>
> One of the Board members has had a very difficult time getting the
> desired results when asking folks to slow it down -- but he may have
> been a 'tad bit' confrontational when approaching the individuals.
> (Perhaps an under-statement, but I wasn't there to see how he handled it
> -- never the less I have my concerns)
>
> This board member now desires to get speed bumps installed, and there
> appear to be some other residents who agree with him.
>
> I am hopeful that the problem can be mostly solved with just nicely
> talking to a few 'speeders' over time in a non confrontational and
> neighborly way just like I would hope someone would come to me if I were
> the guy getting his neighbors upset. Now if the reason they were upset
> was that my petunias were 'too bright' it would be a different matter!
>
> It is possible however that this may be ineffective, and so I began the
> thread to see if anyone else had been successful getting speeders to
> slow it down a little without resorting to forceful measures like bumps,
> cameras, machine gun nests and mine fields ;)
>
> Please Sub, don't get me wrong. I am the last guy who wants to go
> charging into telling others how to live or act -- Well, unless your
> petunias are too bright!
>
> steve
>
>
Honestly, I do not know how to resolve such situation. Speeding is directly
proportional to the age of a driver, so I believe that you are dealing with
young drivers. In such case a talk will not work.
People should follow posted speed.
On the other hand even I have hard time to follow 25 school zone for longer
distance.

Not knowing any personality involved, I believe that speeders in the question
are speeding on purpose to piss off HOA geezers. More attention they get more
speeding there will be.

You have stated: "The primary concern is avoiding loss of life and / or property
damage!"
Near by here in Santa Monica a geezers who vas not speeding killed about 10
people recently. So I guess that speeding is not directly proportional to any
damage until you reach a critical speed when you cannot control the vehicle. The
question is: Are these speeders traveling in such critical speed or are they
exceeding a speed set by a geezers.
One thing I can imagine.
If it is the Association related issue it is clique based thus irresolvable by
any friendly talk. Same as socialism, the HOA environment provides
psychologically unstable environment because such system is not based on an
individualistic and honorable performance of families, but rater on centralized
pressure of egoistic BOD maniacs.
Good luck!

-Sub










>
>
>
> Subcomandante wrote:
> > "steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> > news:3F56D786.5060109@adelphia.net...
> >
> >>I clearly stated that 25 is the speed limit in a residential area, and I
> >>was primarily concerned with a few folks exceeding this by 20-30 mph.
> >>
> >>This seems a reasonable concern to me.
> >>
> >>steve
> >>
> >>
> >
> > So what is your concern?
> > a) noise
> > b) safety
> > c) or the fact that they ignore the sign (your ego).
> >
> > Well, the most effective concept these days is the photo enforcement.
> > Having said that, the cost may be prohibitive.
> > I have noticed in Santa Ana that the City is erecting photo enforcement
signs
> > even though there are no camera installed.
> > Next psychologically effective device is portable radar which is connected
to
> > large display so as you are passing by it displays your speed.
> > Ask your City if they would install one on the temporary bases on your
street.
> >
> > -Sub
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Subcomandante wrote:
> >>
> >>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:3F569C73.1010604@adelphia.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hey Sub,
> >>>>
> >>>>If you can't see the logic behind a reasonable speed limit in a
> >>>>residential area with narrower than average streets then what can I say?
> >>>>
> >>>>How about ***plonk***?
> >>>>
> >>>>steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>What is reasonable?
> >>>I take my daughter true these so called residential areas to school every
> >>
> > day.
> >
> >>>The 40 is normal speed from the drivers point of view. To you 15 is
speeding
> >>
> > so
> >
> >>>plonk or not plonk you never win.
> >>>-Sub
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Subcomandante wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The socialist's appetite to control human natural behavior like speeding
is
> >>>>>unlimited. I am not surprised that COPs are ignoring you.
> >>>>>-Sub
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"steve" <slubman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:3F54FEDD.8030707@adelphia.net...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Any suggestions as to the best way to control serious speeding on
> >>>>>>private streets of a HOA governed community in California?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Residents of at least one part of our community have made repeated
> >>>>>>complaints of vehicles speeding. These complaints range from what appear
> >>>>>>to be fairly minor speeding, up to major (30 MPH+ Over the 25
> >>>>>>Residential limit) speeding or 'drag racing'. I have not personally seen
> >>>>>>'drag racing' but I have seen quite a few instances of vehicles
> >>>>>>traveling much faster than what appears to be safe in a residential
zone.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Our community has private streets, and the local police department seems
> >>>>>>to be unwilling to respond to any speeding complaints unless it involves
> >>>>>>seriously reckless behavior or injury.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Of late there has been a group of residents who are so frustrated with
> >>>>>>the speeding that they have petitioned the board to install speed bumps
> >>>>>>or some other type of 'traffic control' to try to slow vehicles down.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I suspect that much of the speeding is due to a few residents in the
> >>>>>>community. (Not just kids mind you, but adults who really should know
> >>>>>>better.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I have been told that there have already been some nasty altercations
> >>>>>>between residents who have tried to talk to 'speeders' and there has
> >>>>>>even been a serious case of vandalism to one Board Members vehicle (many
> >>>>>>thousands of $ in damage) after they tried speaking to one of the
> >>>>>>speeding drivers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>(Of course I do not know how folks have tried to approach suspected
> >>>>>>speeders -- If they were polite etc. Personally I have found that most
> >>>>>>of the time neighbors can work things out if they discuss issues in a
> >>>>>>calm and friendly way, but I realize that this may not always be the
> >>>>>
> > case.)
> >
> >>>>>>The fact that the streets are private, and the local police department
> >>>>>>refuses to help cite the most serious violators leaves the community in
> >>>>>>a quandary over how to get speeds back under control.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Personally, I don't like the idea of speed bumps, but I agree that there
> >>>>>>is a high probability that if the most serious speeders don't slow down
> >>>>>>someone is bound to crash, and people may be badly injured --
> >>>>>>particularly pedestrians. It would be so much better if the few folks
> >>>>>>who are seriously speeding would tone it down a bit -- at least until
> >>>>>>they left the residential areas....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Does anybody have first hand experience with speed bumps or other
> >>>>>>measures taken to reduce speeding in such a situation?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I am very curious if speed bumps were effective in reducing serious
> >>>>>>speeding.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I would love any ideas that were effective that don't require the
> >>>>>>installation of bumps.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>One Idea I had involved a radar camera trailer placed in clear sight in
> >>>>>>the area in which the most speeding was reported. This of course raises
> >>>>>>many issues: privacy, legality, etc. I spent quite some time looking at
> >>>>>>the california laws and it appears that radar cameras are not entirely
> >>>>>>legal -- at least in public areas -- and it also appears that a peace
> >>>>>>officer must cite motorists (in public areas). And of course there is
> >>>>>>the issue of identifying who a 'speeding' vehicle belongs to.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>How do the california speeding and enforcement laws apply on private
> >>>>>>property?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Steve
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
>
>

[Les Thompson in CA]

>Subject: Re: Speeding Question
>From: steve slubman@adelphia.net
>Date: 9/3/2003 11:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3F56D786.5060109@adelphia.net>
>
>I clearly stated that 25 is the speed limit in a residential area, and I
>was primarily concerned with a few folks exceeding this by 20-30 mph.
>
>This seems a reasonable concern to me.
>
>steve<<<<<<<<

Steve if I remember correctly your "streets" are private.................and
they do not meet the requirements of the local jurisdiction for "streets". It
may better serve you not to refer to them as streets but as driveways. You
could establish your own speed limit (for example 10 MPH) but the problem is
enforcement. The CA Vehicle Code gives the following definitions:
490. "Private road or driveway" is a way or place in private
ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having
express or implied permission from the owner but not by other
members of the public.
590. "Street" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Street includes highway.