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Rod Speed
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Picilli <feranija@net...> wrote

>>>>> Browsing web pages, I see everybody suggests bleach that
>>>>> contains sodium hypochlorite to sanitize sponge, utensils, to kill
>>>>> salmonella and other foodborne bacteria on a countertop, fridge
>>>>> handle, kitchen sink, especially after handling meat and poultry.

>>>>> Why only bleach ? OK, it may be an excellent sanitizer, but
>>>>> aren't 99% propanol or ethanol just as effective disinfectants ?

>>>>> Remembering chemistry lessons from school I
>>>>> don't think any bacteria will ever survive alcohol.

>>>>> There either must be some advantage of bleach over alcohol (price
>>>>> maybe), or once upon a time someone mentioned bleach and everybody
>>>>> is over and over again rewriting the same advice with bleach on
>>>>> their web pages, forgetting there are other effective sanitizers ?

>>>> It makes no sense to 'sanitize' the kitchen,
>>>> that just breeds better bugs.

>>> More Rod Speed bullshit.

>> We'll see...

> Yes we will, just keep reading.

No need, we've already seen you flaunt your complete pig ignorance.

>>> Bleach and alcohol do nothing of the sort.

>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.

> You're showing your ignorance. Keep up the good work.

>>> "Better bugs" are the result of antibiotics (triclosan for
>>> instance in a cleaning product) being used to kill bacteria.

>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.

> More ignorance. Keep going.

Any 2 year old could do better than that pathetic effort.

> (Damn, Rod just hates it when he's proven wrong)

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.

> Yeah right, like your shoe? Bwahahahahaha!

Yep, breeds whatever that can run
faster and avoid getting stomped, stupid.

>>> Bleach and alcohol kill bacteria and
>>> viruses by causing physical damage.

>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.

> Wrong again. Why not be a MAN and admit you're mistaken?

No need, is hilarious watching you
furiously digging that hole you are in.

>>> Germs have no chance to develop
>>> antibiotic resistance to physical damage

>> Duh.

> Duh, but you're arguing about it.

Nope, I never said that using bleach breeds ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANCE.

I JUST said that anything the kills breeds better bugs while
ever you dont kill 100% of them. And bleach cant kill 100%
of them, otherwise hospitals would just use bleach. They dont.

> I guess that makes you the moron.

Guess again.

>>> and thus would not "breed better bugs".

>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.

> What part of PHYSICAL DAMAGE are you having a problem with?

No part. That STILL breeds better bugs while ever you dont kill
100% of them, and you cant kill 100% of them in the kitchen.

> That's how disinfectants work, micro-organisms cannot build up a resistance
> to physical damage no matter how hard you try and prove otherwise.

Corse they can and do breed bugs harder to kill using disinfectants.

If it was as simple as you claim, you wouldnt see better
bugs bred in hospitals which use disinfectants, stupid.

> You are WRONG.

Nope.

> Deal with it dumbass.

Nothing to deal with, pig ignorant clown.

>> If it was anything like your stupid pig ignorant
>> claim, hospitals would use bleach and or alcohol
>> and would never see any better bugs bred.

> They use other disinfectants that work the same way as
> well as bleach (think ebola) and alcohol hand sanitizer.

Pity we see better bugs bred in hospitals anyway.

> We see better bugs bred through the use of anti-biological agents
> and their improper usage, not through the use of disinfecting agents.

Wrong again.

> "Quat-based disinfectants carry a positive charge. Bacteria, viruses
> and fungi carry a negative charge. When a bacteria-laden surface is
> sprayed or mopped with a disinfectant, the charge distribution of the
> bacteria cell changes from negative to positive. This results in the
> disruption of the bacteria cell wall and eventual death to the microbe."

Irrelevant how they kill if they dont kill 100%, stupid.

> You're wrong once again.

Nope. And not one single individual has actually
agreed with your terminally pig ignorant claim.

Funny that. Hilarious actually.

Keep digging, you'll be out in china any day now.

Logan Shaw
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Beeblebrox wrote:
> so you're basing your whole argument on some girl who "seemed to
> believe" against all scientific data on the subject?

She was a girl who had a Ph.D. in Biology, so I feel it's OK to
trust her opinion on what kills germs and what doesn't.

- Logan

latmu
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> Beeblebrox wrote:
>> so you're basing your whole argument on some girl who "seemed to
>> believe" against all scientific data on the subject?

> She was a girl who had a Ph.D. in Biology, so I feel it's OK to trust her
> opinion on what kills germs and what doesn't.

You're wrong, plenty with PhDs have got stuff wrong.

Even Nobel Prize winners have got stuff wrong.

Rod Speed
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Beeblebrox wrote:
>> Spod Reed wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Picilli <feranija@net...> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>> Browsing web pages, I see everybody suggests bleach that
>>>>>>> contains sodium hypochlorite to sanitize sponge, utensils, to
>>>>>>> kill salmonella and other foodborne bacteria on a countertop,
>>>>>>> fridge handle, kitchen sink, especially after handling meat and
>>>>>>> poultry.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why only bleach ? OK, it may be an excellent sanitizer, but
>>>>>>> aren't 99% propanol or ethanol just as effective disinfectants ?
>>>>
>>>>>>> Remembering chemistry lessons from school I
>>>>>>> don't think any bacteria will ever survive alcohol.
>>>>
>>>>>>> There either must be some advantage of bleach over alcohol
>>>>>>> (price maybe), or once upon a time someone mentioned bleach and
>>>>>>> everybody is over and over again rewriting the same advice with
>>>>>>> bleach on their web pages, forgetting there are other effective
>>>>>>> sanitizers ?
>>>>
>>>>>> It makes no sense to 'sanitize' the kitchen, that just breeds
>>>>>> better bugs.
>>>>
>>>>> More Rod Speed bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes we will, just keep reading.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Bleach and alcohol do nothing of the sort.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>>>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.
>>>
>>>
>>> You're showing your ignorance. Keep up the good work.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> "Better bugs" are the result of antibiotics (triclosan for
>>>>> instance in a cleaning product) being used to kill bacteria.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>>>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.
>>>
>>>
>>> More ignorance. Keep going. (Damn, Rod just hates it when he's
>>> proven wrong)
>>>
>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah right, like your shoe? Bwahahahahaha!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Bleach and alcohol kill bacteria and
>>>>> viruses by causing physical damage.
>>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong again. Why not be a MAN and admit you're mistaken?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Germs have no chance to develop
>>>>> antibiotic resistance to physical damage
>>>>
>>>> Duh.
>>>
>>>
>>> Duh, but you're arguing about it. I guess that makes you the moron.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> and thus would not "breed better bugs".
>>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> What part of PHYSICAL DAMAGE are you having a problem with? That's
>>> how disinfectants work, micro-organisms cannot build up a
>>> resistance to physical damage no matter how hard you try and prove
>>> otherwise. You are WRONG. Deal with it dumbass.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it was anything like your stupid pig ignorant
>>>> claim, hospitals would use bleach and or alcohol
>>>> and would never see any better bugs bred.
>>>
>>>
>>> They use other disinfectants that work the same way as well as
>>> bleach (think ebola) and alcohol hand sanitizer.
>>>
>>> We see better bugs bred through the use of anti-biological agents
>>> and their improper usage, not through the use of disinfecting
>>> agents.
>>>
>>> "Quat-based disinfectants carry a positive charge. Bacteria, viruses
>>> and fungi carry a negative charge. When a bacteria-laden surface is
>>> sprayed or mopped with a disinfectant, the charge distribution of
>>> the bacteria cell changes from negative to positive. This results
>>> in the disruption of the bacteria cell wall and eventual death to
>>> the microbe."
>>>
>>>
>>> You're wrong once again. Not start you crying like you always do.
>>>
>>
>>
>> In this case the original troll was correct and you are wrong,
>> whoever you are. Rod is correct on this one.
>
> Your ignorance of "physical" action is amazing.

> A human can develop a resistance to a disease, but he
> will never develop a resistance to a bullet to the head.

Wrong again. A bullet to the head doesnt produce
death 100% of the time, so if that happened enough
it would still bred humans with stronger skulls etc.

> That's why disinfectants work the way they do.

They dont in hospitals.

> They are the bullet to the head of the bacteria or virus.

Yes, but since they dont kill 100%, they breed better
bugs, which is why you get the worst bugs in hospitals.

Rod Speed
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Beeblebrox wrote:
>> Spod Reed wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Spod Reed <rhalford1961@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Picilli <feranija@net...> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>> Browsing web pages, I see everybody suggests bleach that
>>>>>>> contains sodium hypochlorite to sanitize sponge, utensils, to
>>>>>>> kill salmonella and other foodborne bacteria on a countertop,
>>>>>>> fridge handle, kitchen sink, especially after handling meat and
>>>>>>> poultry.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why only bleach ? OK, it may be an excellent sanitizer, but
>>>>>>> aren't 99% propanol or ethanol just as effective disinfectants ?
>>>>
>>>>>>> Remembering chemistry lessons from school I
>>>>>>> don't think any bacteria will ever survive alcohol.
>>>>
>>>>>>> There either must be some advantage of bleach over alcohol
>>>>>>> (price maybe), or once upon a time someone mentioned bleach and
>>>>>>> everybody is over and over again rewriting the same advice with
>>>>>>> bleach on their web pages, forgetting there are other effective
>>>>>>> sanitizers ?
>>>>
>>>>>> It makes no sense to 'sanitize' the kitchen, that just breeds
>>>>>> better bugs.
>>>>
>>>>> More Rod Speed bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> We'll see...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes we will, just keep reading.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Bleach and alcohol do nothing of the sort.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>>>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.
>>>
>>>
>>> You're showing your ignorance. Keep up the good work.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> "Better bugs" are the result of antibiotics (triclosan for
>>>>> instance in a cleaning product) being used to kill bacteria.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof
>>>> that you've never ever had a fucking clue.
>>>
>>>
>>> More ignorance. Keep going. (Damn, Rod just hates it when he's
>>> proven wrong)
>>>
>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah right, like your shoe? Bwahahahahaha!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Bleach and alcohol kill bacteria and
>>>>> viruses by causing physical damage.
>>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong again. Why not be a MAN and admit you're mistaken?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Germs have no chance to develop
>>>>> antibiotic resistance to physical damage
>>>>
>>>> Duh.
>>>
>>>
>>> Duh, but you're arguing about it. I guess that makes you the moron.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> and thus would not "breed better bugs".
>>>>
>>>> ANYTHING that kills bugs breeds better bugs, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>
>>> What part of PHYSICAL DAMAGE are you having a problem with? That's
>>> how disinfectants work, micro-organisms cannot build up a
>>> resistance to physical damage no matter how hard you try and prove
>>> otherwise. You are WRONG. Deal with it dumbass.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it was anything like your stupid pig ignorant
>>>> claim, hospitals would use bleach and or alcohol
>>>> and would never see any better bugs bred.
>>>
>>>
>>> They use other disinfectants that work the same way as well as
>>> bleach (think ebola) and alcohol hand sanitizer.
>>>
>>> We see better bugs bred through the use of anti-biological agents
>>> and their improper usage, not through the use of disinfecting
>>> agents.
>>>
>>> "Quat-based disinfectants carry a positive charge. Bacteria, viruses
>>> and fungi carry a negative charge. When a bacteria-laden surface is
>>> sprayed or mopped with a disinfectant, the charge distribution of
>>> the bacteria cell changes from negative to positive. This results
>>> in the disruption of the bacteria cell wall and eventual death to
>>> the microbe."
>>>
>>>
>>> You're wrong once again. Not start you crying like you always do.
>>>
>>
>>
>> In this case the original troll was correct and you are wrong,
>> whoever you are. Rod is correct on this one.
>
> Your ignorance of "physical" action is amazing.

> A human can develop a resistance to a disease, but he
> will never develop a resistance to a bullet to the head.

Wrong again. A bullet to the head doesnt produce
death 100% of the time, so if that happened enough
it would still bred humans with stronger skulls etc.

> That's why disinfectants work the way they do.

They dont in hospitals.

> They are the bullet to the head of the bacteria or virus.

Yes, but since they dont kill 100%, they breed better
bugs, which is why you get the worst bugs in hospitals.

If it was anything like as simple as you claim, we wouldnt have
seen the breeding of better bugs in hospitals seen before
antibiotics were even invented. Bleach and alcohol had been
widely used in hospitals before antibiotics had been invented.

Done like a dinner, as always.

Peter Bruells
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
"latmu" <eree@nopam.com> writes:

> You cant assume that with santizing. If it was that simple,
> you wouldn't see hospitals breeding bad bugs, and they do.

Besides, proper sanitizing is a non-trivial skill. Hospitals,
physicians, lab personel - they all follow specifically designed
protocols for specific areas.

Just taking "MurderDeathKillSuperBleachXXX" and using it genereously
doesn't kill the germs and stuff normal products left over. Doesn't
increase security at all.

Neon John
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:06:24 -0700, Picilli <feranija@net...> wrote:

>Browsing web pages, I see everybody suggests bleach that contains
>sodium hypochlorite to sanitize sponge, utensils, to kill salmonella
>and other foodborne bacteria on a countertop, fridge handle, kitchen
>sink, especially after handling meat and poultry.
>
>Why only bleach ?

Because it is THE most effective sanitizer there is and it's cheap as
dirt to boot.

>OK, it may be an excellent sanitizer, but aren't
>99% propanol or ethanol just as effective disinfectants ?

No.

>There either must be some advantage of bleach over alcohol (price
>maybe), or once upon a time someone mentioned bleach and everybody
>is over and over again rewriting the same advice with bleach on
>their web pages, forgetting there are other effective sanitizers?

There are other effective sanitizers - quaternary ammonia, phenol,
carbolic acid, etc - but bleach is the proven gold standard that costs
almost nothing.

The USDA standard, enforced by health department restaurant
inspectors, is 100ppm available chlorine in the sanitizing solution.
At that concentration, the chlorine smell is just barely detectable on
the surface of the liquid. Contact with the solution does not leave
any smell on the hands. Casual contact with this solution will not
bleach colors or damage clothes. Pretty much the ideal sanitizer.
Why fool with anything else?

John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN

Logan Shaw
09-23-2005, 07:54 AM
Neon John wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:06:24 -0700, Picilli <feranija@net...> wrote:

>>There either must be some advantage of bleach over alcohol (price
>>maybe), or once upon a time someone mentioned bleach and everybody
>>is over and over again rewriting the same advice with bleach on
>>their web pages, forgetting there are other effective sanitizers?

> There are other effective sanitizers - quaternary ammonia, phenol,
> carbolic acid, etc - but bleach is the proven gold standard that costs
> almost nothing.

Iodine would work well, but it would be hell on the countertops. :-)

- Logan